Q&A with Holistic Scientist about Bondage and Liberation

Jan 31, 2016

Aspirant: Please explain what is moksha (Liberation)?

Holistic Scientist: Why do you ask such a question? Right now are you in bondage (bandhan)? Do you realize that you are in bondage? Do you understand what bondage is? Do you experience dependence or helplessness (parvashata)?

Aspirant: No, I don’t feel dependent.

Holistic Scientist: If there is a cage and we lock a monkey in it. Then what will the monkey try to do?

Aspirant: Try to be free.

Holistic Scientist: Yes, he does not like to be in the cage. He wants freedom. He does not like the bondage of the cage. In the same way, you are also in bondage, but you have not realized it. When will you desire moksha? When you realize you are in many bondages, when you feel uneasy in many situations, you feel like you are in a cage, then you will desire to be free. When even a monkey does not like bondage, then how can we like it? Do you understand this?

Aspirant: Yes, I understand.

Holistic Scientist: If you go home late, do they rebuke you when you reach home? Do you like that?

Aspirant: No.

Holistic Scientist: That itself is bondage. That itself is dependence. So from within you will be afraid when you are late, is it not? When you commit an offence, then you will feel afraid of the authorities, would you not?

Aspirant: Yes, I will be afraid.

Holistic Scientist: All this is dependence and dependence itself is bondage. If you have a severe body ache, would you be able to go out? Would you not be forced to stay at home and suffer?

Aspirant: Well, are we not dependent because of physical body (Prakruti)? 

Holistic Scientist: Yes, we are dependent because of Prakruti, but are we not dependent because of all the family members? They will say, “It is seven in the morning and you still have not got up?” So, although you may be tired, but because someone says, “You still have not got up”, you will be forced to get up. Or else someone will say, “Please get up, tea is ready”, then even if you are not well, you still will have to get up, is it not?  

Aspirant: Well, we have to adjust with everyone, is it not?

Holistic Scientist: Yes, what else can we do? We have been born in this world with a mutual relationship, so we have to remain dependent. If we become independent, then nobody is required in this world!

Aspirant: But when we realize that this world is like a dream…………

Holistic Scientist: Even if it were like a dream, but as long as there is no bondage there is no problem. But this is sheer bondage. One feels dependent throughout that day, there is not any freedom whatsoever!

If you are made to sit in this gathering (satsang) for two hours, without being allowed to go out and if you feel hungry, then what will you do? Then, does not hunger become a bondage, bondage of thirst, bondage of sleep, then the bondage of policeman if caught, wife’s bondage, children’s bondage, so many types of bondages?  If the hair has grown long and is not cut, then it irks in the mind, This is bondage. If the nails have grown and are not cut then it irks as bondage. However, for someone who is fond of growing nails it won't feel like bondage.   

So now do you realize that you are bound? Do you realize that you are bound from so many sides?

Aspirant: Yes, but earlier this bondage was not felt.  It is only now, when you have pointed it out, I have realized this.

Holistic Scientist: Earlier you were not conscious at all. Today people are looking for religion but they do not know that they are in bondage. And I was experiencing this bondage right from the age of thirteen! When I heard that God would give me moksha, I said, “If God is going to give me moksha, then I do not want it!” If God gives me moksha, then he is my superior. And if there is a superior, then dependence persists.

Therefore, the knowledge (Gyan) that is prevailing in the world, the knowledge that people are aware of, that knowledge is public prevalent (laukik). Everybody says that God has made this world, but if God has made this world, then he will continue to remain our superior forever and nobody can ever be free.

The true meaning of moksha

Aspirant: Then, please explain, when we can it be said that moksha has been attained?

Holistic Scientist: Moksha means no one is our superior and no one is our subordinate. When nobody interferences with us it is moksha. No interference in our happiness that itself is moksha. We can feel that we have become free.

We should become independent. For how long should we remain dependent like this? In this world, even a mosquito can interfere with you. What an awful dependence! Then again, to get a haircut we have to go to a barber. Don’t you feel that there is a need to be independent?

Aspirant: There is no need to be independent, but the right understanding to be independent is needed; that’s what I believe.

Holistic Scientist: Yes, only that understanding is required. If we have that understanding it is enough. Even if we cannot be independent, at least that understanding is required, is it not? Even if we have that understanding, it is more than enough. 

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Excerpted from the book: “Who am I” by Jai Sachchidanand Sangh.